I'll be camping for about the next 10 days, so you get an few extra days to read and analyze these chapters---comments please by Monday 8/29/11.
Chapter 7 we get deeper into the romantic intrigue between Black and Shekure and find it really is a love TRIANGLE. On pg 35 we learn that Shekure sent a message to Black via Esther which contains an illustration that Black made for her years ago. Was Shekure's message meant to encourage or discourage Black's advances?
Chapter 8 we meet the interesting character of Esther. What do you think Esther gains from manipulating the lovers the way she does?
Chapter 9 we meet Shekure. What do you think Shekure gains from manipulating Black?
Remember you can answer all or some or none of the questions posed above. They are only discussion starters. If you have any comments about parts of the story that interest you, please share them with the group.
OPTIONAL READING AND RESEARCH
Here are some interesting pictures of womens' costumes in 16th century Turkey: http://home.earthlink.net/~al-qurtubiyya/16/kultur-16.html
Here is an actual pattern you can purchase to make a 16th century Turkish woman's outfit.....check out those platform shoes!!!! Actually the clothing looks pretty comfortable and the colors are fantastic, but was probably very warm in summer--all those layers!
http://www.reconstructinghistory.com/products/rh406-ottoman-turkish-woman-1
And finally a little Turkish-English poem about love and marriage!
http://www.poemhunter.com/poem/will-you-marry-me-turkish-english/
I look forward to your comments.......Happy Reading!
8 comments:
I'm loving the outside reading about the fashion from 16th century, the colors were brilliant and the shoes are unique. I can imagine what it must have been like to walk in them. I am wondering what was used to color the fabric. Also loved the poem. This is such fun to explore.
Jackie and Ray: Thanks for asking those questions about Turkish fashion and customs and art. I spent an enjoyable and educational morning researching the answers.
To answer Ray's question about painting on a grain of rice, I found this website dedicated to a wonderful Islamic artist Sheikh Nassib Makarem (from Lebanon). So Pamuk was not exaggerating or speaking figuratively about this kind of miniscule painting--calligraphy and drawing on grains of rice. In the section on Sheikh's birth and origin there is information that confirms things Pamuk told us about the illustrators. Sheikh sat and painted in such detail for up to 10 hours and he had to soak his hands in a bucket of cold water. So becoming blind at the end of a long career as an illustrator would certainly be explained. Also Sheikh's biography tells of him being self taught in calligraphy by studying the works of the great masters. Be sure to click on "His Works" to see pictures of some of these masterpieces.
http://www.nassibmakarem.org
Ray also asked about the greeting customs and signs of respect. I found this list of Turkish customs which interestingly was created for the US Military. It appears Pamuk is right on ..."the hands of an older person may be kissed and touched to the greeter's forehead to show respect." Also..."One does not put feet on a desk or table, point the sole of the foot toward another person, smoke without asking permission, or cross the legs while in the presence of an older or superior person." So Black would have been sure to perform these gestures and watched how he postured himself in the presence of Enishte.
http://www.almc.army.mil/ALU_INTERNAT/CountryNotes/EUCOM/TURKEY%20CUSTOMS.pdf
Jackie: Here is an interesting link to info about dying fabric. The section on "Natural Dyes" is particularly interesting. The article speaks of the famous "Turkish RED dye-could this have any connection to the title of our book????
http://autonopedia.org/crafts_and_technology/Fabric_and_Dyes/How_To_Dye_Cloth.html
The type of fabric used to create fashion in the 16th century would probably include brocades, silks, damask, linen and velvet. Here is a fabulous source to see what these fabrics look like. If I could have a dress or vest made, I'd pick Damask. What about you? Of course, your fabric choices would be based on your wealth. The Venetian merchants were the link to making Eastern and Western fabrics and styles available
aka the Silk Road.
http://realmofvenus.renaissanceitaly.net
Wow, the power of the Internet! Great questions that brought me alot of interesting information, THANKS.
Gorusuruz (see you later)
Very interesting. We were surprised to learn that someone could actually paint on a grain of rice. That's quite a feat. And speaking of feet, lol, it was also interesting to learn about the body posture customs. Thanks for the links to explore more information, Jan. You found some interesting sites.
In researching the art of minaturists during the 16th century I found this site.
http://www.ee.bilkent.edu.tr/~history/Ext/miniatur.html
I had a chance to read the info on the link you recommended on the miniaturists. So there really was a Master Osman! Thanks Jackie for the research, very interesting.
You are welcome. We are having fun.
I was reading a review of the book and now I am wondering if I was correct when I said that Black came back to help with the book because the review stated that he came back to help find the person that killed Elegant. Or was it a combination of the two reasons?
Jackie, I think that review may be wrong, I don't think Black knew about the murder when he came back to Istanbul. But, we shall find out as the story progresses. What do our other readers think about Jackie's question?
Was Shekure's message meant to encourage or discourage Black's advances?
Although the words contained in the letter were telling Black that he need not pursue her as a lover the real meaning contained in the letter, and her appearance at the window, tells me that she really doesn't want him to leave her alone.
What do you think Esther gains from manipulating the lovers the way she does?
I think Esther likes to put people together that she believes have romantic inclinations towards each other. Esther can not read or write letters but she knows how to read the motives of people and the hidden feelings that lie within their hearts.
What do you think Shekure gains from manipulating Black?
I think Shekure has romantic feelings for Black and fond memories of him when they were younger, before he declared his love for her and was sent away because he was not considered an appropriate husband for her because he didn't have any wealth to offer her. Now that Black has returned Sekure is torn between wanting him as her lover again and rejecting him as a memory from her past that is no longer a part of her life.
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